Public Health Insight

A Meticulous Career In Criminal Justice & Violence Prevention

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What does a meticulous career in criminal justice and violence prevention look like? Look no further than Lori Toscano. 

In this episode of the Public Health Insight Podcast, Lori joins to share her initial ambition to become a grade 5 teacher to now a devoted career in community violence intervention. The conversation dives into the importance of data, community involvement, and the challenges Lori faced while trying to balance enforcement and support. The episode concludes with insights into her role at WestEd, her approaches to technical assistance, and her passion for violence prevention.


References for Our Discussion

◼️WestEd


Guest

◼️Lori Toscano


Host(s) & Producer(s)

◼️ Gordon Thane, BMSc, MPH, PMP®



Production Notes


◼️ Music from Johnny Harris x Tom Fox: The Music Room



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Lori:

when you're in the work and you're constantly thinking about where violence is clustering or this violent event or, listening to your teams be on the front line and like being in situations that are very dangerous where they are the only folks that can kind of get in where no one else can, where they have that credibility, they have that rapport. But it's overwhelming, right? you're just very hyper focused on the work itself

Gordon:

from PHI Media, I'm Gordon Dane, and with me is someone who's put together a meticulous career in criminal justice and violence prevention that serves as an inspiration. Lori Toscano. You're listening to the public health insight podcast, your go-to space for all things, public health and global health from the sustainable development goals to the social determinants of health, as well as interesting dialogues about the diverse career opportunities that exist in these fields. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and leave us a rating on apple podcasts and Spotify. So other people like you can benefit from our content. At present day. Lori makes a meaningful impact as a director of Justice technical assistance at WestEd and is now a recognized national expert in community violence intervention. And that's something that we'll spend a little time exploring, but everybody has a story and I'm deeply interested in exploring that. Why do people make the career decisions they make? What do they learn from their experiences? And especially how they make an impact in community, when sometimes it feels like our work is just a drop in the bucket. Lori, welcome to the Public Health Insight Podcast.

Lori:

Thanks for having me, Gordon. It's a pleasure to be here.

Gordon:

Awesome. And so, Lori, I like to start off this way. And it's because I like to visualize career journeys a bit like a Google map. and the reason I like it is because when you put in point A to point B, you have twists, turns, you got closures on the highway, you got traffic, you got detours. You never know what you're going to expect. So. Let's put your career path down as if it was a Google map and go back to the days of when you're in high school Making those critical choices about you answering your parents about hey, what do you want to be you're having a lot of those discussions and then you decide to enroll in the law enforcement program at Towson University What was the thinking behind picking that specific program at the time?

Lori:

Yeah, so it's actually interesting. My entire life, all I wanted to be was a teacher.

Gordon:

A teacher!

Lori:

that's it. That was it. Fifth grade because of the fifth grade teacher I had. Shout out to Mr. Brush. Um, that's all I wanted to, to be was a teacher. So I went to Towson and at the time, this dates me, but at the time it was Towson State University.

Gordon:

Mmm

Lori:

they were very well known for their, um, education degree. So I was like, Oh, this is perfect for me. Um, I had taken. justice class in high school.

Gordon:

Hmm. Okay. Okay. So why did you, you just, I thought I'd take that. It's interesting. It wasn't.

Lori:

would take it because it was interesting.

Gordon:

Hmm. Okay.

Lori:

think. I can't remember, you know, what the impetus for it was, like, what I had to select between, but for whatever reason, that's

Gordon:

was the one.

Lori:

out. Yeah, yeah. And I, I was really interested in it, and I really enjoyed the class. But I went to Towson, thinking, I'm going to be a teacher,

Gordon:

Wow.

Lori:

Like, that's,

Gordon:

And did you have an idea of what you would teach at that point too, or just at that point, so multiple different courses, subjects,

Lori:

100%. I pictured myself like, dressing up for like the

Gordon:

Wow. Did. Wow. Wow.

Lori:

reader, I love to read, so like how to make reading more engaging, which is what my 5th grade

Gordon:

Mm,

Lori:

So it was all these things that I had experienced and really loved that I thought, I'm going to learn how to do

Gordon:

mm-hmm

Lori:

going to put my spin on it, this is what I'm going to do for my career.

Gordon:

Okay. Interesting.

Lori:

And I don't know what happened, to be quite honest, because I switched freshman year. So I never even got, like, oh, we're gonna take these upper level

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

that are, like, now towards teaching.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

Now something was, like, you know, I don't think that's it for me. And I think part of it was when you think about individuals that have an elevated level of risk, right, whether that's risk for involvement in violence or

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

delinquency or whatever the case may be, Those are the kids I really like, right? Like, those are the kids I have a good time working with. Those are the kids that I feel like I can connect with for whatever reason. Yeah, and so something was just like, I think, I think I'm interested in this. At Towson, at the time, if I recall correctly, and, you know, dating myself, but I graduated in 1996, I think?

Gordon:

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

Lori:

there wasn't, it wasn't like a degree in criminal justice, how it is now. I don't know.

Gordon:

Okay. Okay.

Lori:

was, a degree in law enforcement, no, a degree in interdisciplinary studies with a concentration in law enforcement. very big mouthful, and at the time too, I knew that I was not interested in going into law enforcement. I

Gordon:

Mm. Mm-hmm

Lori:

route, so at the time it was, is it working for the Department of Juvenile Services, is it working in, a placement facility? I really didn't know, it

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

what we were learning was very interesting to

Gordon:

hmm.

Lori:

very, you know, engaged with it, so I was like, let's see what happens with this, right? Let's

Gordon:

Mm hmm.

Lori:

see where it goes.

Gordon:

So initially, when you said teacher, I was like, Oh, wow, that's very far off where you ended up. But when you broke it down with, you were like, I just want to invest in young people. Then I was able to then see the parallels between sort of going in criminal justice and the teaching. So I think there's some intertwined strings there. So now when you finish your bachelor's. What was your first job after that?

Lori:

let's see, what was my first job after that? When I was at Towson, I did an internship

Gordon:

Mm

Lori:

of, I think at the time it was still referenced as the Department of Juvenile Justice. And the woman that I was, shadowing unfortunately fell ill.

Gordon:

hmm Mm hmm.

Lori:

up seeing all of her. Clients, all the kids that were on probation

Gordon:

Wow.

Lori:

me, or I went to see them.

Gordon:

Wow.

Lori:

definitely very interesting. I can't recall if that was my first, if when I left, no I think I worked at, I worked at a juvenile facility for boys.

Gordon:

Mm hmm Mm

Lori:

where they resided at

Gordon:

hmm. Okay, okay

Lori:

think that there was a combination of youth that were referred through the Department of Juvenile Justice, as well as youth that might have been under, working with the Department of Social Services. Honestly, I was 18, I

Gordon:

Mm hmm

Lori:

I was 21, so I was 21,

Gordon:

Right

Lori:

As I said, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to graduate and I'm going

Gordon:

Right, right, right

Lori:

and, you know, do all of that. So it was kind of like, what's out there? You know,

Gordon:

So so you're doing this and you still weren't sure how it would play out with with what you just knew you started from a place of interest And weren't really quite sure how you would use and apply that knowledge and skill set. Interesting. Interesting.

Lori:

kind of like, let's try some things out and see, you know, where, kind of where it takes me. Again, that was in the late 90s. So, as my career advanced and I got more into community violence intervention, like, that wasn't, wasn't, you know,

Gordon:

Yeah, that wasn't a crystal ball master plan. Yeah, yeah.

Lori:

connected to that at the time, so, being 21, recent, you know, grad, I didn't really know, and, and I don't have anyone in my life that is also in this

Gordon:

Right, right, right, right.

Lori:

one in my family is in, like, has, has, does work in anything that's kind of like, well, my

Gordon:

Right.

Lori:

but like, other than that, like, my friends were all doing different things, whether that was education or business or whatever, so it was kind of like,

Gordon:

You're a lone pilot there.

Lori:

out there being like, what does this look like for, me, you know, and, and what makes the most sense. I think, I think I've always had this, or maybe it's, it's happened as I've gotten older, you know, in this space specifically and, you know, when it comes to violence prevention and intervention. Jen. It's really important that it's community led and community driven. my role is how can I support that work and how can I be an ally, I

Gordon:

Hmm. Mm hmm.

Lori:

you know, getting to know each other, I'm very uncomfortable in this kind of, of

Gordon:

Mm hmm.

Lori:

feel that I should be the face, the

Gordon:

Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Lori:

want to lift up the work of everyone that I luckily get to partner with and support. Um, but it's always just like a weird space. So even like going through my career, it was always, well, how can I provide? What do I have that I can like add to

Gordon:

hmm. That's right.

Lori:

be of help and of

Gordon:

That's right. That's right.

Lori:

not like, ta da, it's me and this is what I do. It was

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

the work looks like and, and is there anything that I have in my skill set or that I bring to the table that can help it in any way,

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

to do it, right? Like,

Gordon:

hmm. Mm hmm.

Lori:

Imagining, like, I, I was always the person, like, putting the chairs down at community

Gordon:

Ha ha. Right, right, right, right. Thank you.

Lori:

grill, or like,

Gordon:

You like to play a supportive role. Gotcha. Gotcha. you talked about community level violence prevention. And so that puts me in the sphere of talking about your experience at the Baltimore city health department. You were there for about seven years. So something must've kept you there for seven years also. It's a decent amount of time to spend at an organization. So Tell us about what your role looked like there and how it evolved.'cause I know you had two, I think two different positions there, so let's talk about that.

Lori:

At the time, I saw, an advertisement for the position, which I think the first position that I was in was, I think it was a community liaison.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

this was for, as you said, the Baltimore City Health Department and it was with their Safe Streets program. And Safe Streets was the first cure violence replication outside of,, Chicago. So I kind of did, you know, a little bit of like research on it, checking it out, and I was like, this is really cool. Like this is everything that I had done or like the work that I had been doing.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

Lori:

even though, my goal was like, how can I support you, youth that's on my caseload if I was a juvenile probation officer or person, you know, youth that I'm supporting in independent living, right? Like how can I support you? But everything's still. element of kind of enforcement, right? Like

Gordon:

Okay. Okay.

Lori:

probation, you're going to go to detention, or you continue to, um, pick up new law charges, there's a

Gordon:

hmm.

Lori:

outside of your home, right?

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

you, if you do these things, cool. If you don't, then something negative is going to happen to you, right? Like, If you engage in negative activities, something negative is going to

Gordon:

It's a very punitive kind of approach, right?

Lori:

and, and, that's not my bag, right? Like, that's, someone just said to me in another situation, um, we were talking about, uh, kind of doing an inventory of violence prevention programs in a certain place. And, and, were saying, like, what are the things that you want to know about? And the person said, I want to know if you're more carrot or you're more stick. And I was like, ooh,

Gordon:

Hmm. Hmm. Right.

Lori:

So when, you know, when I saw the position available for Steve Streets, I was like, I'll, I'll do whatever it takes to get this. And I

Gordon:

Hmm.

Lori:

interview being like, listen, I know. That I have, you know, the level of credibility. I am not from community. I'm

Gordon:

Hmm. Hmm.

Lori:

I was here for school and stayed. But, you know, I was still, you know, didn't grow up in a neighborhood in Baltimore.

Gordon:

right. That's right.

Lori:

and so I just said, you know, I'll do whatever it

Gordon:

You really wanted that position. Yeah.

Lori:

think there's value in it, I'll do whatever it takes. And for whatever reason, they were like, sure, let's give you a shot.

Gordon:

You didn't give them a choice.

Lori:

I kind of didn't. Um, yeah, and I'm really, that is probably, in thinking about that now, that was probably the best career decision

Gordon:

Okay.

Lori:

ever made. Like, just being really transparent and being like, I

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

right? And recognizing everything. Um, I didn't bring everything to the table, right, that made sense for that position. Um, but I really cared about the work

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

in what Baltimore was trying to do. moving in this direction in this community violence intervention work, that at the time was relatively, you know, grassroots organization have always been doing.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm Mm.

Lori:

I've always had the level of

Gordon:

Right.

Lori:

have always been, you know, trying to connect with folks that they were, um, afraid would be, get involved in violence, either as a victim or a perpetrator. So that was, it's been going on for

Gordon:

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

Lori:

we think of like the body of work, that Community Violence Intervention, or CVI, right, is known as, it was relatively new to the masses.

Gordon:

Right, right. Mm.

Lori:

a really big deal, right? To like, to do it and do it well, And to be a part of proof that it works, right?

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

so I started out by playing like a supporting role where, had community based organizations that were running safe streets for people. sites, so Safe Streets East and Safe Streets

Gordon:

Okay.

Lori:

and, you know, specific organizations. So supporting them whether it be in, helping out with the training or the data collection or documentation or creating a flyer or, you

Gordon:

Right, right.

Lori:

out for a community

Gordon:

Right. Mm

Lori:

you know, attending a march or a vigil if unfortunately violence did occur in one of the target areas. So that and then, became the director of the initiative. At some point over the

Gordon:

hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

So, got to, you know, play a bigger role in, in supporting the work, at the city level. So, you know, what could I do to ensure that there was funding available, to ensure that folks got what they needed to be able to do the work and do the work well, um, you know, what was the, what was the groundwork that we could lay in terms of the proof? You know, could we, we ended up being evaluated by Johns Hopkins, Daniel Webster at, at Johns Hopkins,

Gordon:

hmm.

Lori:

and his team. So, it's like, you know, can we be a part of the evidence showing that this can work? So luckily I got to do that for seven years, which was great. But then I think it was time to, you know, when you're in the work, you're so close, you know, you're so close to it. if you're at the city level, you might be getting, calls, you know, in the middle of the night or pings on your

Gordon:

Mm

Lori:

remember if I had a pager at that

Gordon:

hmm. Mm hmm.

Lori:

to that. So who knows?

Gordon:

The price of leadership, I guess. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

it was like all of us, right? And so when you're in the work and you're constantly thinking about where violence is clustering or this violent event or, you know, listening to your teams be on the front line and like being in situations that are very dangerous where they are the only folks that can kind of get in where no one else can, where they have that credibility, they have that rapport. But it's overwhelming, right? you're just very hyper focused on, on the work itself. and I feel like, too, with community violence intervention work, at the time, and I think this is one of the, you know, I think I, I try to be really transparent about what I did well and what I didn't do well,

Gordon:

hmm. Okay. Yes, let's learn.

Lori:

I think there's some value in like, being honest about it. I think towards the end of my, um, my stint in that position, I was so hyper focused on the data because I felt like the only way for this to stick and like for other places in the country to

Gordon:

Mm hmm.

Lori:

of being able to do this work as well, focus on the data. Like just,

Gordon:

Interesting. Mm hmm.

Lori:

if, if there were two shootings this year, you know, is it down 50 percent because there were four, like, just very, very hyper focused

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Lori:

part of it. And I think there needed to be a lot more focus on the people part of it, in terms of specifically the staff, right? Like, making sure that people who were now being, continuously being chronically exposed to violence, you know, did they have the

Gordon:

All right.

Lori:

Um, you know, did they have the training that they needed?

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

shooting happened at 2am, you might have only been working until 6pm that night and then they have to like get up and,

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

and try to prevent retaliation, right? So I think that it, it, for me it was like, I feel like I've done a good job in the, in the support for

Gordon:

Mm

Lori:

set is, but someone else needs

Gordon:

hmm. Mm. Mm. All

Lori:

of really thinking about how to support staff in the way that they should be supported. Kind of being able to be in a place where you don't have to fight for the proof anymore, right? Where you don't, like, I felt like I was constantly at the table like, no, no,

Gordon:

right.

Lori:

this is beneficial, this works, blah, blah,

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Come with the numbers. Right. It's very, very outcome driven, like, and singular outcome. Right, right.

Lori:

Very in defensive mode, to be honest. Very like, have to prove that this works. I feel like I'm constantly defending the work, constantly defending the value of this because it was something different, right? So, I, I get it. But, for me, I think it was like, somebody else needed to take it and be like, I don't have to be in that mode anymore. Like, we've been evaluated. We've seen reductions in shootings and killings. We know that this works. You know, like, let us continue to grow and

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

expand and troubleshoot and all

Gordon:

hmm.

Lori:

I think that was my time to be like,

Gordon:

To be

Lori:

everything that I've learned,

Gordon:

right.

Lori:

can people benefit from that?

Gordon:

Right, right, right.

Lori:

ended up working for Cure Violence Global, which was what Safe Streets was based on, that model.

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

to say, let me tell you

Gordon:

hmm.

Lori:

like that I did not do well. And if I had to do it over again, this is what I would

Gordon:

Um,

Lori:

if we're thinking about operationalizing the work and you're, you know, you're looking at the data, well, If you're doing, if your main focus is, I need to connect with individuals at the highest level of risk and then I can say in the background, Ooh, let's look at the data and see, are the days and times where violence is

Gordon:

right, right, right.

Lori:

are the underlying factors that might be giving rise to violence,

Gordon:

Um,

Lori:

historically look like in this community, and can we do this, this together, because

Gordon:

right, right, right,

Lori:

but you're the

Gordon:

right,

Lori:

on your neighborhood, you're the

Gordon:

right.

Lori:

you know, what's happened historically. So it was more of like, can I use my experiences

Gordon:

Um,

Lori:

people that were just getting started in the work.

Gordon:

right.

Lori:

you know, nationally, oftentimes the work was run through a health department or through the mayor's office, so it's like, can I talk to the folks that are the me in those, you know, what I had been in those areas and be like, let me tell you

Gordon:

Um,

Lori:

let me maybe give you some, some

Gordon:

right,

Lori:

to like, if I could do it all over again,

Gordon:

Sounds like you were able to shift data was sort of an outcome thing. And now you're using data to inform proactive actions, inform collaborations, inform how you look at risk and protective factors more broadly than just does something work or it doesn't work. And it seems like you had a better time living in that space, but you also did something interesting. During that time period, you did your master's in that. So what was the thinking behind that? Was it to fill a specific knowledge gap, or was it more like, I want i'm seeing my career going on this trajectory and I need to have a master's to uh, a lot of people feel like they have to have a master's or higher level of education if Feel respected feel listened to what was the thinking behind why you did it at that point?

Lori:

I think it was a little of both to be honest. Um, I think because I didn't have the same level of like anxiety and stress, you know, as I was getting a little bit older and getting like a little bit, um, more acclimated to the work. I think it was like now, maybe now's the right time. I also, um, felt like, you know, now I was, when I graduated from Towson, I was 21.

Gordon:

Mm hmm.

Lori:

what did that education look like? You know, I don't know if I just don't have the best memory, which I think is part of it, but, you know, I remember very specific classes, but I don't remember all of the, you know,

Gordon:

Mm hmm

Lori:

criminological theories and things like

Gordon:

Mm

Lori:

thought, you know, why don't we do this? Why don't we take it to the next level in terms of career as well? And it was a really cool experience, because when you I don't know if this is if this is, like, this same thing for everyone.

Gordon:

hmm Mm hmm

Lori:

first off, it's the like, only time in your life when you can be competitive. So it's like, oh, what'd you get on that, right? Like, which is fun.

Gordon:

Yeah.

Lori:

but it was just also like, I was able to connect

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

what I was learning, to the actual work that I had either done, was doing, or hopefully wanted to do in the

Gordon:

Yep.

Lori:

Um, and I think that was a really cool space to be in, and it was cool to see individuals that had gone, you know, straight to the masters program from undergrad who

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

in the world of work yet or like not been in, in um, the violence prevention or criminal justice or whatever it was that they were pursuing and to hear kind of, you know, their thinking and their like, you know, ideas around. How to increase this, decrease this, or like what this work could look like. So it was kind of, it was fun to be in that space as well and see folks that were just starting.

Gordon:

Yeah. Yeah. A good mix of, yeah.

Lori:

further in and be like, oh this is, you know,

Gordon:

I can relate to what you said. Yeah. Yeah. You said about having had experience in going to school, you're able to experience school in a different way. I think there's something to be said. When you have that master's experience, a lot of people Are of the belief that it's it's important to get work experience after your bachelor's so that you can appreciate your master's in a different Way, though, people still do it back to back and it works, but it it gives you a different perspective So i'm glad that you acknowledge that piece Now i'm looking at the google map and it says we've arrived at our destination in terms of where you are now being the director of justice technical assistance at west ed You So that's, that's where you are now. You've been there for a little while too, as well.

Lori:

A little over three

Gordon:

Three, three weeks. So tell me about the WestEd portfolio that you work in and your work specifically in terms of violence prevention and things of that nature.

Lori:

Um, it is so fun.

Gordon:

Hmm. Fun. That's a good word to use when you describe a job.

Lori:

I know, right? And who

Gordon:

Yeah. Right.

Lori:

of rare, right? But it is. It's really fun. Working at WestEd, I think one of the coolest things for me is, um, I get to pursue work that I really care about, right? And that, that I'm deeply invested in and that I can, again, going back to this idea of, like, You know, community violence intervention, um, work in, specifically in the U. S. right now, it's amazing. You know, it's amazing how far it's come. There are amazing people doing amazing work within community, on the front lines.

Gordon:

Right.

Lori:

the person to be like, let me go train these violence interrupters. I might have something to add, right,

Gordon:

Right, right. Mm-hmm

Lori:

it's not me. So, when I'm at WestEd and they're like, well, you know, what kind of work do you want to pursue? In my mind it's like, again, how can I support the field?

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

I don't need to be in competition with everybody that I grew up with, you know, in this field, because, you know, They're the right people doing the right work in the right way, but how can I support it? the portfolio that that me and my team currently have probably the, what we're most proud of right now, and we're going to talk about the violence prevention navigation framework, which is pretty much the coolest thing ever, but in terms of like body of work, we have a project where we're supporting all of the grantees that are funded by the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. We, support all of their violence prevention and intervention grantees with technical assistance. So, we've built out this

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

learning portal, which is my favorite thing that I've ever created. With the help of, of my team and

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

folks in this space, it's an online learning portal. There's tons of resources. There's news.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

you know, there's a community page that lists every organization that is funded through the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency, where they're located, what their project is,

Gordon:

Mm

Lori:

you know, If I'm in Philadelphia and I'm doing community violence intervention and I'm working with an individual who needs workforce development, and that's not something we do as an organization, right at my fingertips, I can just put in workforce development, Philadelphia. And every funded project will be there. Now there'll be some gaps, right, because not everyone's funded by

Gordon:

Right. Right.

Lori:

do we continue to build and grow this network in thinking about prevention, intervention, re entry, and transformation and healing? So we get to, you know, we're very lucky that we're supporting currently, I believe it's somewhere around 360 grantees throughout the entire Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And we do a lot of one on one work with organizations, which we lovingly refer to as intensive TA, but I don't, I don't think it's such a good name. Right. But it's, it's one on one, right? Like we work with you one on one and, you know, thinking about being at WestEd and the body of work, I didn't want to do TA.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

assistance in the traditional ways, which is,

Gordon:

Okay.

Lori:

you know, a checklist, you know, or maybe some resources, or it might be, again, going back to like this idea of like data being very important in this, in this work,

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

be pushing on data collection and data analysis. I really wanted to be able to work in a way that said, you're a community based organization, or you are a city department or agency. Um, you may be brand spanking new, right?

Gordon:

Right, right. Right.

Lori:

may be less than a year old.

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

funding, you know, historically. What is it that you want? Right? Do you want me to make you a flyer for something? Or

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

you want me to go through all of your documentation and make recommendations around data collection? Or do you want to start talking about, you know, if you're in community violence intervention, like operationalizing the work. Where do you go? When do you go?

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

go? Right? And then how do you tell the story of the work itself? So it's letting folks, it's kind of

Gordon:

Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tailored, customized, yeah. Mm-hmm

Lori:

anything that folks want, you know, is what we hope to provide them with. And, and we've been doing that, I feel like that project is about two ish, a little bit over two years old. So folks, working with folks that are doing like primary prevention

Gordon:

Mm-hmm

Lori:

or positive youth development. So it's like arts and sports and recreation, as well as community violence intervention and reentry. Right? So

Gordon:

Must be a wide variety of stuff going on in there when I think about it. Mm.

Lori:

it's really fun and you know, folks that are doing this work are just amazing. and anytime that you get to support what they're doing. And, and anytime someone says, Oh, you know, that, really helpful. I'm like, Oh, that's so great. So, our Pennsylvania project is probably our largest project. we also have another project that we're working on. We're working with Pennsylvania on, which is, a federal award called the Continuum of Care, where it's actually looking at, what's, what type of system can you build out to refer youth back to community based organizations

Gordon:

Hmm

Lori:

they don't get deeper systems involvement,

Gordon:

mm Okay. Okay.

Lori:

looking at all of the potential intercepts where you could say, okay, if we, if we get you here,

Gordon:

Mm-hmm.

Lori:

connect you back to community instead of going into

Gordon:

Right?

Lori:

deeper, right?

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

fun project because that's also more of a planning where we get to do the you know What does the data tell us and what are people that are directly impacted tell us and what do people that have had systems? Involvement tell us if you it's it's kind of this opportunity to say if you could build this system would you build,

Gordon:

Mm-hmm.

Lori:

And it's kind of a fun way to be thinking about this work because, you know, if the way that we're tackling violence or how we've done it historically is the only way, like,

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

be, right?

Gordon:

Right, right. Right.

Lori:

to be all of these different for innovation, right? And for, again, learning from your mistakes or tweaking

Gordon:

Absolutely.

Lori:

them, making sure that they fit the local context or the cultural context. you know, it's giving people the opportunity to really say, been impacted or I've been connected to this or I do work in that space and if I could dream,

Gordon:

Mm.

Lori:

something with the sole intention of making sure that youth get what they need within community. What does it look like? So that's another, that's an exciting one to be connected to. And then we work with, Local Initiative Support Corporation,

Gordon:

Hmm.

Lori:

I S C. They partner with us on our Pennsylvania project and we partner with them. They are a technical assistance provider for a federal award, the

Gordon:

Hmm. Okay.

Lori:

to Address So we are working with, several of those sites that received that grant funding

Gordon:

Okay. Hmm.

Lori:

which again is really interesting because I am a support person on two projects that are

Gordon:

Yeah.

Lori:

practices in schools, I get to listen to someone, that I work with that's a subject matter in that and just be, like, awed by all of it,

Gordon:

Hmm.

Lori:

see the work in action. and then I work with another group group in Atlanta that is doing, their community based organization that is providing mental health services and support within the schools. get to work on that. So, it's like a whole bunch of, of

Gordon:

Yeah, you get to dabble in, and even the, I like in hearing you talk and see the passion and excitement in being able to dabble in. So we walked away from like a outcome as a sole focus to now building theories to like If we were to do this, this, and this, what would that look like? If we were to build this and then build it and then see what happens versus like, you have this one thing and you have to keep showing how it provides value and how it impacts, has a positive impact. So I really liked hearing how you kind of brought that, brought all your experiences together to like more of a, a blanker canvas to be able to kind of dream about the projects. That you think would add value and then your your ideal role and how you describe it about I'm behind the scenes. I support you to do your work. I don't need to be Paraded out there and be like the number one expert in the country on camera So like so in a way it gives you both best of both worlds

Lori:

Yeah. And I think, you know, when you're in like a technical assistance role or when you're in kind of like this, you know, a couple steps removed role, the one hand, you're sad, right,

Gordon:

Right, right Yeah,

Lori:

I love Baltimore, I've been here since 1996, or in Maryland since 92, in Baltimore since 96. Um, and it's a little bit of a like, oh, I'm not, I'm not as connected, you

Gordon:

that's right

Lori:

have friends that are in the space and they're doing amazing work, but like,

Gordon:

And I can see it a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah.

Lori:

that's difficult, but there's also this, you know, Getting this opportunity to be like, well, I can try things and like, test them out for you, you know, and see like, does this make sense for you? Like, would this be a good fit? If I create this tool, right, or this resource, will that be helpful to you? You don't have to spend money. the time and energy spinning your wheels because a lot of times, like, again, we're talking about people in this space, specifically in community violence intervention, but really in violence prevention and intervention as a whole, that have to be hyper focused on providing quality services to individuals that are at whatever level of risk they are, right, whether that is in the prevention space for kids that might have a little bit of an elevated risk or Or for individuals that are providing services to folks that are at highest risk for involvement. A lot of times you have to keep your head down and the blinders on and be in the work. Right? Like, you don't have that luxury of taking a step back and being like, Oh, well what would make this

Gordon:

Let's do some systems thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

Lori:

Because you're the only one that can do this, right? Like, you

Gordon:

Right.

Lori:

set that no one else has. You can get where others can't, you know. You're doing one on one work with youth and families. So, in my mind, I'm like, Okay, what are the mistakes that I can make on the, like, on behalf of,

Gordon:

There

Lori:

and that, if it is something of value, if someone seems something that it's, if someone thinks it's of value to them, you go, you know.

Gordon:

you go. All right. So let's take a little break and transition over to my, well, one of my favorite parts of the podcast and It's our rapid fire segment. You ready for that? You ready for that? All right. So Lori, welcome to our rapid fire segment called insight blitz, where I'll ask you questions or read some brief statements and I'll get your brief responses. Ready?

Lori:

I think so.

Gordon:

Let's go into it. What's a skill that you learned early in your career that you still use today?

Lori:

I mean, I think it goes back to being able, being willing to do whatever it takes.

Gordon:

Hmm.

Lori:

Right? Like,

Gordon:

It's not about you type of. yeah, yeah.

Lori:

I mean, I think when you're younger, it's a more challenging

Gordon:

Hmm. Hmm.

Lori:

my life, yeah. Like, Just being willing to show up and say, Oh, yeah, again, like you want me to fill the napkin dispenser? Cool, no

Gordon:

Hmm. No egos there. Hmm. Yeah. Do it with some flair. What's a number fact or statistic or any piece of knowledge that drives home the urgency of Violence for you that you would share with anyone who maybe is a little bit about the work

Lori:

Probably that gun violence is the number one cause of death for, I believe it's individuals ages one to 44, it might even be

Gordon:

1 to 44 49. Wow

Lori:

and homicide is the leading cause of death for children, for young adults, young men, pregnant women,

Gordon:

Oh, geez

Lori:

yeah,

Gordon:

Okay, that that was a couple and all equally disturbing A hot take you have about Public health or the work that you do

Lori:

I don't think that this is a hot take anymore, but that violence is a public health issue.

Gordon:

We're gonna talk a lot about that, okay, okay

Lori:

hot it is. It's probably lukewarm at

Gordon:

First for some people Some people it's hot. It's a hot take though. I hear what you're saying, but some people will push back against that Lastly the worst piece of advice you've ever gotten

Lori:

the worst piece of advice

Gordon:

Mm hmm. Not the best. I switch it up on you the worst

Lori:

it's funny the thing that keeps coming up for me is fake it till you make it but that's actually really good

Gordon:

Right mm hmm. Mm

Lori:

think it is really good advice to you know Especially, yeah, yeah. who has given me bad advice? What was that bad advice? Probably everything will be okay. To be honest. Because it isn't always, and that's okay too. Right? I like power positive thinking. Right? Like, I like

Gordon:

All right, right

Lori:

I like having hope, right? And I think on a, on a big scale, heck yeah, everything's gonna be alright. But I think it's also okay to say, everything is currently on fire, that situation is, and let's, let's focus on this, like I don't have to be like, but everything will be alright in

Gordon:

It doesn't have to be right, right. Okay. Right. And we can be okay with everything not being okay. Okay. A little narrative shift there.

Lori:

accepting of it for now with the idea of

Gordon:

Trying to do something about it. Okay. All right. That's all good. I'll take that. I'll steal that one. So that brings us to the end of our insight bliss segment. Hopefully I didn't scare you away and you'll stick with me for the rest of the episode. Yeah. We're doing okay. All right. Okay. Awesome. So now let's get into the meat of the subject here. This show was edited by me, gordon thing. With additional editing from Leshaun Benedict. Sound design and mixing by myself and Leshaun Bennet. The original music. From the music room. Composed by Tom Fox, licensed from Johnny Harris. The cover art designed for our show by Leshaun Bennet. The public health insight podcast is produced by Phi media Thank you for listening to the public health insight. Your go-to space for informative conversations, inspiring community action. If you enjoy our podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating on apple podcasts or Spotify. See you in the next one.

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Gordon Thane

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Leshawn Benedict

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